You are in for such a treat today. I recently interviewed my friend, Gemma sharp about navigating the teen years if you have a neurodivergent child, and of course we talked way too long for one episode, so this will be a two part episode. But our conversation was jam packed with so much fascinating information that i think will be really helpful to you whether or not you have a neurodivergent teen. So without further ado let's jump right into my conversation with Gemma Sharp.
[00:00:56] Jen: I am so excited to introduce you to my friend, Gemma Sharp. She is an emotional intelligence coach, and she has some amazing things to share with us today about kids who are strong willed and highly sensitive. Maybe they have ADD. Maybe they have ODD. Maybe they have a diagnosis, maybe they don't. But She's going to share how we can navigate the teen years a little easier, a little better.
So welcome to the podcast, Gemma, will you please introduce my listeners to you and tell them a little bit about how you got into this work?
[00:01:28] Gemma: Oh, Jen, thank you so much for having me on today. I have been so looking forward to doing this podcast with you. well, my name is Gemma Sharp, as you said, I'm an emotional intelligence coach.
I have two children. I'm Australian, but I live on the isle of man. Which is a small island just off the coast of England. And, I have my son who's 14 and my daughter who's 12. And she is ADHD and she has Autism Spectrum Disorder as well. Dyslexia as well.
And I've been... It's been such a transformational, parenting journey that I've been on that, started off not so great, can I just say. Although my son was very easygoing, he was extremely easygoing child. so I was one of those judgmental parents who was like, you just tell them, what do you mean your child doesn't do as it's told. And, and then my daughter came along, who is amazing, but has shown me just how different parenting can be when you have a highly sensitive, very strong willed, and as it turns out, a neurodivergent child as well.
So the past four years I have been researching and finding different ways to parent her in a positive way. Because the first, sort of seven years of her life, I'll admit were, were not the best.
I was not the best parent at all. I didn't understand what she was going through and it was really, really difficult. And we had to get to. the real sort of bottom of the emotional pit before we could find our way out.
And that's, that's what I'm doing now is I'm helping and supporting other parents who find themselves in the same situation and don't know where to go for help.
Don't know how to, sort of change their parenting in order to help their children. So, so that's my goal is that I don't have any parents sitting on a kitchen floor, sobbing their heart out like I was many years ago, thinking I don't know what to do and I don't know who to turn to.
So that's my goal.
[00:03:27] Jen: I love that.
I love that. And as I have a few kids who have ADHD and potentially some other diagnosis that we're trying to navigate and figure out. And so I know what it's like to be that mom on the kitchen floor, sobbing your eyes out. Like I have also been there.
And so I love, I love that we can share this message of hope and of: there is a way to parent positively with these kids.
Yeah. They just need something a little different and, and you have to learn how to do it.
[00:03:55] Gemma: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.
[00:03:58] Jen: I love that. Okay. Well, let's jump right in. first of all, let's talk a little bit about how this strong will highly sensitive child, or a child with ADHD, a child with a diagnosis neurodivergent, how is it different as we enter the teen years?
How is it different to be a teenager versus a teenager who's strong willed and highly sensitive? Like, where, where are all these changes coming from and, and what can we expect?
[00:04:24] Gemma: I really feel for kids who do struggle so much with being highly sensitive.
I am a highly sensitive person. I haven't been diagnosed with ADHD, although I'm pretty sure with all the research that I've been doing that I am absolutely on the spectrum in some way.
and I think that it's very difficult for them in today's world, because when people see a highly sensitive or strong willed, child, especially within the school system, they are treated as disruptive or defiant and they're there is a, not a lot of compassion when it comes to what they're dealing with.
And the more I learn about the brain development of children from little up to teens as well, and also too how that affects them when they're, when they're ADHD, it has such a massive impact, especially on their learning.
I think when they start to get into the teen years, they already feel like there is a spotlight on them. You know, teens suddenly start going through that hormone change and they feel like they walk into a room and everybody is looking at them. It's just part of being a teen that they feel the spotlight is on them all the time, even though you turn around to them and say, No, no one's, no one is looking at you. They're too busy thinking about themselves.
They don't feel like that. They feel like they have this spotlight on. And I think when they are neurodivergent in some way, they feel like that spotlight is even bigger and that makes it really quite difficult for them. a lot of children with ADHD also have, RSD, which is rejection sensitivity dysphoria.
And that means that they, super aware of people looking at them, they are hyper vigilant on, what, other people are doing, their facial responses to them, and in actual fact, they're, by the age of 12, children that have this, and I think children with ADHD actually tend By the age of 12, they have seen 20, 000 more negative interactions than neurotypical children. And I was amazed at that.
They are hypersensitive to everything that is going on around them. And when you have a neurodivergent child, that suddenly makes so much sense. like my son will look at my daughter and she'll go, he's looking at me. In a strange way. And he's going, Hey, I just, I just looked, I wasn't doing anything.
She picks up on everything around her and she takes it all personally. And that's, that's quite difficult, I think as a parent. Because you want to say to them, Hey, no one is, is, is looking at you or I'm sure they're not. Thinking badly or anything like that. But that child still feels that no matter, no matter how much we say, don't think about things like that.
[00:07:21] Jen: I think that's so fascinating, that there, they have so much more negative reaction, but as I think back, the school system and well behaved kids, of course, we're correcting them more as well. So not only are they picking up on all of those cues, but they're also getting corrected significantly more often than any other child.
[00:07:45] Gemma: Absolutely. There's the stop fidgeting, sit still, concentrate. What do you do? You know, sit down to stop moving. There's always, especially within the school system, like you say, that correction going on. So no wonder they constantly feel like that.
And you know what it's like, if you were to sit there and have an itch that you couldn't scratch, because someone had told you not to, you hyper focus on it.
You can't do anything but focus on that and it gets worse and worse and worse until you satisfy that itch. so it is so difficult for them.
And a lot of the time, They are singled out, and that makes things even worse. and I, I really wish the school system would change because, you know, neurodivergent children are so, prevalent now.
There's so much more of this and really, what is neurotypical? I don't know if there is such a thing as neurotypical.
[00:08:44] Jen: I don't think so. I don't think so. There's just a whole bunch of different humans being humans, right?
[00:08:50] Gemma: There's just all different spectrums, you know, when it comes to everything. So, the one thing that I, that I found helpful to also understand when it comes to an ADHD child is the brain function, which is very interesting when they start to get into high school.
This, the brain function is always the same, but, when neurotypical brains concentrate, the body sends blood to the prefrontal cortex at the front, ready for them to be able to concentrate more. But when you have ADHD, the brain or the body sends blood to the prefrontal cortex, but after 15 minutes, that blood is drained away.
And that means that then the child finds it very difficult, if not impossible to concentrate anymore because that part of the brain is not being stimulated.
And so you've got this window of 15 minutes and understanding that really helped as well because... and I wish again, the school system would know this because what they, in my opinion, what they should do is do little learnings in 15 minute increments.
And after 15 minutes, get up and move. As soon as you move your body. change what you're focusing on and then sit back down. You can get another 15 minutes of focus time.
So that's a really, to me, that was really helpful to understand that. So when I'm at home doing homework with my daughter, we try and do it in 15 minute chunks.
Concentrate for 15 minutes, then have a little break. It doesn't have to be long, but move your body, change of scene very quickly, get a drink, go to the toilet. Okay. Come back down.
Because It's not their fault that they can't concentrate anymore. It's literally the blood's being drained from that part of the brain and the brain goes, that's it. I'm done now.
[00:10:44] Jen: That is so fascinating. Yes. I have a daughter who has a five Oh four. So one of the accommodations we have on her five Oh four at school is that she can get up and move around. And we just had our meeting to say, you know, what do we need to keep? What can we change? What has she grown out of? And, one of the teachers asked, do we need to keep this accommodation that she's allowed to move have a seat where she can move freely.
And one of the other teachers piped in and she was like, yeah, she definitely needs that. She moves a lot and it just, that helps her stay focused. So that's really fascinating.
[00:11:20] Gemma: It is. It really, and I think too, as parents, when we start to understand that, then we can go into the schools when we have those sorts of meetings. And that's what we have with my, my, my daughter's school as well, is we can be their advocate. We can go in and say, this is what they need and if they turn around and they give any objection, you can say, actually, it's clinically proven that this is how the brain works. You know, because it is so important.
And it is equipping us with the ability to be their advocates to stand up for them and say this, this is what they need, rather than the teachers turning around and saying, actually, this is what we need within this classroom environment to make our lives a little bit easier.
Don't get me wrong. I wouldn't be a teacher if you paid me, but I think it would be, it's quite a difficult job, but it is understanding that is really important.
[00:12:12] Jen: Yeah, I have all the gratitude in the world for my kids. Teachers have been so accommodating, so phenomenal and definitely have been on my team advocating for my kids. So props to all the teachers out there. If you're listening, thank you for what you do. We appreciate you!
But yes, I mean, you do have to know these things to be able to advocate for your kids and really understand how to help them.
[00:12:36] Gemma: Yeah, absolutely. Previously, well, just before you and I were talking about children's executive age, I think this is another thing that is so important for, parents to understand is that for children that have ADHD, their, executive age is different to their physical age.
When we think about their executive age, that is, that is their ability to regulate their emotions, their impulses, their social awareness, and sometimes their, their sort of general maturity, really. and that means that neurodivergent children are typically 30 percent behind On their executive age.
[00:13:20] Jen: Wow! That's significant.
[00:13:24] Gemma: It really is. So, when I look at my chart, and actually the distance grows as they get older. So it's still 30%, but it seems to be bigger. So like my daughter is 12, but she has an executive age of an eight year old. This has nothing to do with IQ. This does not mean that your child with IQ is in any way behind.
It just means that their ability to manage their emotions and regulate their impulses, where, you know, Impulses are huge when it comes to ADHD kids, they are behind. So understanding that as well, really helped me when my child, when my daughter was kicking off about something or she wasn't being able to control herself, I have to remember, and I have to constantly remind myself, I'm actually dealing with an executive age child of, of eight, not 12.
Because we might turn around and say, you're 12, come on, you know. Why are you got your head in a bag of sweets or whatever it might be? I don't know, but really they're only, they're only eight when it comes to that. So if you look at that, so on my chart, let's say you're looking at a 32 year old. Their executive age is actually 21.
So that's, it is a big difference. And I think understanding that. It really helps, well it really helped me to be able to control my emotions more when it comes to dealing with her emotions.
Yeah. I'm thinking, okay, you're not, you're not quite there yet. And in actual fact, because I think I am ADHD, then, then my executive age is a bit lower as well.
[00:15:01] Jen: So maybe this is why we feel so young when we're like adults with ADHD, we're like, I feel so much younger than my body says I am. Exactly. Now it makes sense.
[00:15:12] Gemma: Yeah, it does. Exactly. So understanding that I think is, is very helpful. and also too. I noticed that a lot with my daughter, she plays with, she has children of her own age that she does interact with and play with, but she has a lot of younger friends as well. And she's very, very comfortable with them. she's very comfortable playing with her younger cousins and she prefers that a lot of the time.
And perhaps that is because they're more on her executive age level.
[00:15:42] Jen: Wow. That's so interesting. Yeah. Yeah. And you have this chart, that people can download, right?
[00:15:48] Gemma: Yeah. Yes, absolutely.
[00:15:50] Jen: Okay. So I will link to that in the show notes. If you want to check out this executive function age chart, so you can see the difference between your child's actual age and their executive function age. I think that would be such a helpful resource. So I will link to that in the show notes.
Wow! Right? I hope this episode has been as eye opening for you as it was for me. So many great takeaways. I would love to hear your takeaways and continue this conversation over in my Facebook group. Teens are not the worst. So come connect with me there and let's chat. I will link to the executive function resource she mentioned in the show notes so make sure you go and grab that and make sure you come back next week for the rest of this conversation to find out what we can do as parents to better support our teens.
